CyprusLiving

This problem seems to have reared its ugly head again, after being dormant for a few years.

Our managing agent (Vesta, part of L****s) has been contacted by the Dept. of Health etc regarding safety at the pool. We have had to get a certificate from the govt. Mechanical Installations Dept that our set-up is OK, but the Dept of Health have an issue with the provision of certificated life guard and first aider. I should add that we are already licensed by the local municipality and get a new certificate each year, ever since we got our title deeds seven years ago.

Our Managing Agent says that the Dept of Health is contacting many complexes regarding this and L****s have already been contacted about several of the pools built of their sites.

Has anyone else had this problem recently - and what do you intend to do? Clearly paying a life guard to monitor a pool for a small complex (ours is 43 villas) is out of the question, financially.

I believe in 2008 the government agreed that the present regs re: complex pools were unfair. They were supposed to be looking into amending them. Only recently it was in a local newspaper (Cyprus Property News I think)that they are currently looking at them and intend to make more "types" to which the regulations will vary accordingly. So you have to wonder why they are bothering with this crack down. The only thing I can think of is because we are part of the EU, that those who have been/will be forced to close down their pools, apply to the court of human rights because they are having the right to enjoy their property taken away from them. It's free and it might just work, if enough do it!

It strikes me that as per usual, Cyprus is trying to make it's own Rules up, when the CY Government have subscribed to the European Directive EN 15288-2

EUROPEAN STANDARD FOR SWIMMING POOLS EN 15288-2
September 2008

Swimming pools - Part 2: Safety requirements for operation

This European Standard was approved by CEN on 25 July 2008. CEN members are the national standards bodies of Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, .. etc etc … and United Kingdom.

This standard EN 15288 "Swimming pools" consists of the following parts:
 Part 1: Safety requirements for design
 Part 2: Safety requirements for operation

According to the CEN/CENELEC Internal Regulations, the national standards organizations of the following countries are bound to implement this European Standard: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, …etc, etc, … and the United Kingdom.

Introduction

Pool operators should also consider EN 15288-1, when carrying out risk assessments.
This European Standard includes requirements, recommendations and notes. While compliance with requirements is mandatory, recommendations indicate best practices and notes give additional information and/or explanations.

Definitions
3.1 pool/swimming pool - facility, with one or more water areas, intended for swimming, leisure or other water based physical activities
3.2 not relevant
3.3 outdoor swimming pool one or more constructed open-air water areas for bathing
3.4 private use of an installation designated solely for the owner's/proprietor's/operator's family and guests including the use connected with renting houses for family use
3.5 public use - use of an installation open to everyone or to a defined group of users, not designated solely for the owner's/proprietor's/operator's family and guests independently from paying an entrance fee
3.6 not relevant
3.7 pool basin water tank where water-related activities can take place
3.8 pool surround walkable area around a pool basin, to do with the use of the basin itself, like circulation areas, areas of entry and exit, etc.
3.9 pool operator designated person/organization responsible for the operation of the pool in terms of health and safety
3.10 staff areas areas only the staff have access to
3.11 pool technical staff trained and competent people responsible for the operations of the technical equipment
3.12 supervision assistance to the users and/or surveillance from trained and competent personnel to ensure safe pool operation
3.13 pool supervisory staff trained and competent persons (e. g. lifeguards) responsible for the supervision of users in the controlled area 3.14 poolside supervision action of supervising users in water and on the pool surround

4 Classification
4.1 Swimming pool Type 1 Pool where the water-related activities are the main business ....

4.2 Swimming pool Type 2 Pool which is an additional service to the main business, such as hotels.....

4.3 Swimming pool Type 3 - All pools except:

 pools Type 1;

 pools Type 2;

 pools of private use according to 3.4. [My bold to highlight this sub clause]

________________________________________________________________

Pools attached to private residential complexes falls under category 'Swimmingpool Type 3' - then we get to clause 4.3 where it now seems that the CEN Members exempted pools of type 3.4, not requiring any standard to be set by them, presumably because they saw little risk to users.

If that is the case, what are these sets of Rules that Le***s have been told to implement, that would appear to exceed anything that the CEN Members felt necessary & under what piece of legislation?

darrow wrote:Only recently it was in a local newspaper (Cyprus Property News I think) that they are currently looking at them

That's correct - see http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers. ... id=0047368 (no news since then).

Cheers,

Many thanks, Mike & Nigel.

Is there any more news about have Lifeguards ?

We are in Chlorakas and the authorities are implying that we should have a registered Lifeguard before we get are pool license but not sure if it it actually
'law' yet !!

Geoff

It is possible to have to have parallel contradictory laws and rules. In a civilized well run country it is practice to formally overturn one law / rule so as to avoid confusion.

We have the lovely 2008 EU law / rule EN-15288-2 and the shower of Cypriot law / rule that came in afterwards. Which has precedence?

We have the recent Cyprus Supreme Court case to do with trading that stated that EU Law took precedence over Cypriot Law which could support EN-15288-2 over the local stuff.

Ask a lawyer for the answer! might as well ask a politician! Nobody knows the definitive answer.

Is doing nothing really the best way to go about it???????

EU Law takes precedence over National law. I learned this on my Legal course.

Alan

emgee wrote:EU Law takes precedence over National law. I learned this on my Legal course.

Alan

You did, but did the lawyers in Cyprus?

The balance does seem to be tipping towards EN-15288-2

Our development had been leaning towards a sign on the pool gate disclaiming this that and the other to users of the pool.

Perhaps ALL development pools should display a sign stating 'in Greek'.

Dear Jobsworth. This pool conforms with EN-15288-2. Any problems with this contact Cypresses many MEP's, 'if they will answer your letters, e mail or phone calls'.

Other than the sending of letters out which is probably a Jobsworth job in the first place. Does anyone know of any enforcement action that has taken place?

EN-15288-2 This European Standard shall be given the status of a national standard, either by publication of an identical
text or by endorsement, at the latest by March 2009, and conflicting national standards shall be withdrawn at
the latest by March 2009.

This standard EN 15288 "Swimming pools" consists of the following parts:
 Part 1: Safety requirements for design
 Part 2: Safety requirements for operation

According to the CEN/CENELEC Internal Regulations, the national standards organizations of the following
countries are bound to implement this European Standard: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech Republic,
........etc...........Switzerland and the United Kingdom.

Under the EU Directive EN-15288-2 most pools in complexes are:-

Under Terms & Definitions
3.4 private use - use of an installation designated solely for the owner's/proprietor's/operator's family and guests including the
use connected with renting houses for family use.

Under Classification
4.1 Swimming pool Type 1 - Not applicable
4.2 Swimming pool Type 2 - Not applicable
4.3 Swimming pool Type 3 - All pools except:
 pools Type 1;
 pools Type 2;
 pools of private use according to 3.4.

So, if our pools are not type 1, 2 or 3, what controls on their operation are there?

The EU Directive can be found here http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers. ... 2.2008.pdf

Some topics are like bush fires. They flare up and die down!

This one seems to be in the die down stage but I don't think that it has gone out!

Does anyone have any news or updates on this topic re Swimming Pool Legislation and Licencing.

We are now entering the winter but no doubt it will flare up again come the start of next summer.

Thanks

As the saying goes, 'let sleeping dogs lie'. The information I have is that nothing is likely to happen until the new legislation is passed by the House.

Mike

I am in total agreement with you on this one, been here 12 years+ been on the Residents Committee, done what was needed to make life good for our people and ignored things that no-one ever checked up on. All insured etc but not bothered, not worried about Life guards, we just say "no one on duty" and expect users to have a modicum of sense when on our complex.

We are all over 21 and have responsibility for our actions.

We have not had a serious accident on our complex.

Alan

I agree.

We are in the process of getting our swimming pool license and we have a sign saying 'no lifeguard on duty'. However on the application form we have the name of a lifeguard who is both trained and registered - he is someone that our poolman knows !!! This seems to satisfy the authoritities.

Geoff